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Thread: Written Risk Assessments to become compulsory - POR Pre-launch Check

  1. #511
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenOfThe12th View Post
    And that actually surprises you.
    Considering just how badly factsheets are managed...
    True, but I did get it from a couple of Group websites, not TSA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    So I think many people are seeing this as a real blocker. It's interest, I don't mind at all doing an ra for something big. Kayak trip, big hike, cycle ride etc. But it has convinced me more than ever I am not going back to help with the general weekly meetings. The risk of doing something random and it not breing covered by the ra is too high. And I certainly don't won't to be constantly worrying.

    What has got me thinking is that term that hq put in most arguments somewhere "removing blockers". I have been scouting for 15 years. In that time I can only think of thinks that have made my life harder and put in blockers, with little or no improvement in safety. Examples include: swimming rules, kayaking and canoe permit increases in requirements (can no longer play in surf), loss of access to waters as people over asses the water classifications axe throwing, archery rules, I am sure others will think of others.

    I really am struggling to think of things where blockers have been removed.

    The next one I think is coming... At the moment I can take the yp paddle boarding. There are now BC awards for that and bet soon I will have to be trying to pass a ****** paddle board assessment.....

    Sent from my K10000 Pro using Tapatalk
    They did remove the requirement to have a NGB walking award (WGL, ML etc.) before being allowed to take scouts into the hills.

    In the interest of balance they were the ones that added the requirement first, still they did recognise the drastic drop in expeditions and hikes and changed to the current scheme.

  3. #513
    GSL & ESL shiftypete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Williams View Post
    Wow! I have never seen a PC form before and its amazing how similar the NAN form now is, there is basically only not having to attach programme details and no longer having to send it to the host commissioner (which was still part of the NAN process until a few years ago) and not actually having to get your DC to sign it that is different. I entirely agree that the amount of info required on a NAN form now is stupid and negates a lot of the point of having a NA Permit system to show you know how to run camps safely and within the rules.
    Last edited by shiftypete; 29-07-2020 at 04:45 PM.

    Peter Andrews ESL of Headingley Pirates ESU, Group Scout Leader & Webmaster of Falkoner Scout Group
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    Wike, North Leeds District Campsite - www.wikecampsite.org.uk
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    Please note all views expressed are my own and not those of any organisation I'm associated with

  4. #514
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiftypete View Post
    Wow! I have never seen a PC form before and its amazing how similar the NAN form now is, there is basically only not having to attach programme details and no longer having to send it to the host commissioner (which was still part of the NAN process until a few years ago) and not actually having to get your DC to sign it that is different. I entirely agree that the maount of info required on a NAN form now is stupid and negates a lot of the point of having a NA Permit system to show you know how to run camps safely and within the rules.
    I hadn't either. Neither wonder we never used to bother.

    May as well just get the DC to do the camp.

  5. #515
    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Our NAN form used to be a note through the letterbox saying where we were going and when.

    That Form PC brings back memories - how vague can we make the responses

    The International trip form must be a bit of a beast nowadays.
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushfella View Post
    Our NAN form used to be a note through the letterbox saying where we were going and when.

    That Form PC brings back memories - how vague can we make the responses

    The International trip form must be a bit of a beast nowadays.
    It's not so much one form as a process. The idea is you work with the ACC(I) to develop your trip rather than just doing it all and chucking them a form 1 month out for them to come up with a list of things you missed. TBH I quite like it, and I think there would be room for an option for your typical one-camp-a-year Beaver Leader to work with an NAA in that way rather than needing a NAP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Williams View Post
    It's not so much one form as a process. The idea is you work with the ACC(I) to develop your trip rather than just doing it all and chucking them a form 1 month out for them to come up with a list of things you missed. TBH I quite like it, and I think there would be room for an option for your typical one-camp-a-year Beaver Leader to work with an NAA in that way rather than needing a NAP.
    Agree with this up and down the line.

    There has to be some sort of flexibility for leaders who don't and do know what they're doing. Also, for any of these support processes to have any veracity at all - the people in them need to be properly qualified/experienced and not just placeholders or twisted arms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Williams View Post
    It's not so much one form as a process. The idea is you work with the ACC(I) to develop your trip rather than just doing it all and chucking them a form 1 month out for them to come up with a list of things you missed. TBH I quite like it, and I think there would be room for an option for your typical one-camp-a-year Beaver Leader to work with an NAA in that way rather than needing a NAP.


    Of all the Internationals that I ran, we got zero guidance from the ACC(I). Once, they called and went through what we were doing and the only comment was that we were not mixing with other Scouts. No other Scouts available to mix with.

    I know for a fact that I had more experience in planning International Trips than anyone in the District, and I suspect there were not many in the county with the same experience. Our trips always came in on budget, often with a refund available. Theirs...

    I'm an arrogant sod when it comes to big event planning. My team does it better.
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



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    When I did wood badge, just before the ark was launched, they built camp training into the award for Cub leaders, but Scout leaders generally came through from being Scouts and were assumed just to know. That was about it apart from the odd form. However, camp wardens (assuming you were on Scout sites) or other DC nominees really did come and inspect your camp. In some ways that was probably better than launching us off for five years because we've been trained.
    SL, 11th Hitchin

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    After 20+ years Scouting, I have read and digested the new proposals from TSA. I no longer feel valued or trusted. The NA permit scheme is no longer workable. No way can I issue a passport. The written RA go against good practice by diluting real risks under pointless additional paperwork. I wouldn't mind so much but it feels like we will be the ones who will be thrown under the bus when something goes wrong. TSA needs to look at its structure and training and validation process as a bigger priority. The joke with the new rules s you will be put on restricted duties if your training is not validated in three years. Well our Gsl is still waiting for a management TA to validate his training, as as Distinct only have one!
    Scouting is no longer about skills and experience, it's become unpaid work. For me it's now time to step down and let some new blood take the responsibility, leaders like myself are no longer deemed capable of.

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    So, here we go. One night back and we come home to the news of restrictions back in place. Well, I hate to say it, but I said this would happen.

    Huge mistake opening pubs and restaurants. Huge mistake allowing large gatherings to go ahead.

    Of course, they are already blaming the people so that they can wash their hands of any guilt.
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



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    So it’s your fault?
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    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    So it’s your fault?
    Absolutely. It is the fault of the people. Edit - I just checked your District... probably more like your fault



    We had four Navs and one newbie Junior turn up, plus six adults. The Adults all kept a social distance throughout, but the kids didn't seem to understand the meaning... like I expected.

    It was the first time they had physically met since March, so I expected a lot of chat and socialising - not a great deal that can be done about it.

    Unfortunately, this localised lockdown will put more parents off allowing their kids to come back.
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



    www.upperdearnevalleynavigators.org.uk

  20. #524
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushfella View Post
    Of course, they are already blaming the people so that they can wash their hands of any guilt.
    To be fair, I think they are right to do so to some extent. People are not following the guidelines, particularly not in their homes. It's completely evident that this is the case, and I think they saw Eid al-Adha coming and panicked, as that WILL cause lots of indoor gatherings outside of the regulations, just like Christmas which is going to cause a huge problem.

  21. #525
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    Quote Originally Posted by phil View Post
    After 20+ years Scouting, I have read and digested the new proposals from TSA. I no longer feel valued or trusted. The NA permit scheme is no longer workable. No way can I issue a passport. The written RA go against good practice by diluting real risks under pointless additional paperwork. I wouldn't mind so much but it feels like we will be the ones who will be thrown under the bus when something goes wrong. TSA needs to look at its structure and training and validation process as a bigger priority. The joke with the new rules s you will be put on restricted duties if your training is not validated in three years. Well our Gsl is still waiting for a management TA to validate his training, as as Distinct only have one!
    Scouting is no longer about skills and experience, it's become unpaid work. For me it's now time to step down and let some new blood take the responsibility, leaders like myself are no longer deemed capable of.
    For the record. This is exactly how I feel. I'm still considering my position going forward.

    TSA would do well to heed these sentiments. They really would.

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