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Thread: Written Risk Assessments to become compulsory - POR Pre-launch Check

  1. #526
    Senior Member BenOfThe12th's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    For the record. This is exactly how I feel. I'm still considering my position going forward.

    TSA would do well to heed these sentiments. They really would.
    Already have and had resignation accepted.
    Well it's been fun...

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  3. #527
    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Williams View Post
    To be fair, I think they are right to do so to some extent. People are not following the guidelines, particularly not in their homes. It's completely evident that this is the case, and I think they saw Eid al-Adha coming and panicked, as that WILL cause lots of indoor gatherings outside of the regulations, just like Christmas which is going to cause a huge problem.

    The government has access to behavioural scientists, it must have known what would happen if they eased restrictions and I believe that they have eased things too fast, and now we are taking half-baked steps backwards. I have been accused of being a racist for suggesting that there might be a demographic that is being danced around. (From a man who flies a Confederate flag no-less!)
    Ewan Scott

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  5. #528
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenOfThe12th View Post
    Already have and had resignation accepted.
    This is as frustrating as it is saddening.

    It also angers me that your resignation will be explained, excused or justified by some in the hierarchy by you no longer being the 'type of leader' TSA wants on board.

    This sentiment has been suggested more than once on here (in this thread) and locally to me personally. Conflating opposition with this move with irresponsible and/or negligent leadership more generally.

    It's a slur on all our characters and possibly a more important reason to get out.

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    I would imagine that, in practice, any losses will be masked by and conflated with the expected ones from the unrelated issue of coronavirus.
    SL, 11th Hitchin

  7. #530
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    Quote Originally Posted by DKRSL View Post
    I would imagine that, in practice, any losses will be masked by and conflated with the expected ones from the unrelated issue of coronavirus.
    Yup.

    I still have no idea why there isn't a lot more push back going up the line about this. It's hugely disappointing that district people aren't channelling it back but merely trying to attenuate the effects and convince us that 'it won't be that bad'.

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    I still have no idea why there isn't a lot more push back going up the line about this
    Most will either be taking a break following the attempts to run a digitally delivered scouting experience, working on a getting back/amber/whatever colour risk assessment etc.
    Likewise the farce that is the new Nights away notification bumpf- its not been tested as no camps can take place until we are at green - and no one knows when that will be, i would be surprised if there are any camps/overnights before Easter 2021 and thats being optimistic - I wonder how many sections/groups will fail the minimum standards in POR of having to offer at least 1 night away experience per year?

  9. #532
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard T View Post
    Most will either be taking a break following the attempts to run a digitally delivered scouting experience, working on a getting back/amber/whatever colour risk assessment etc.
    Likewise the farce that is the new Nights away notification bumpf- its not been tested as no camps can take place until we are at green - and no one knows when that will be, i would be surprised if there are any camps/overnights before Easter 2021 and thats being optimistic - I wonder how many sections/groups will fail the minimum standards in POR of having to offer at least 1 night away experience per year?
    There's a good chance we won't be back at all until the new year. I hate it because I know the kids will be keen to do something, anything.

    We used to joke about running a scout group with no Scouts - we weren't that far off being able to do it - still aren't really. We joked, but it might end up that way anyway.

    What an absolute guddle...

  10. #533
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushfella View Post
    Absolutely. It is the fault of the people. Edit - I just checked your District... probably more like your fault



    We had four Navs and one newbie Junior turn up, plus six adults. The Adults all kept a social distance throughout, but the kids didn't seem to understand the meaning... like I expected.

    It was the first time they had physically met since March, so I expected a lot of chat and socialising - not a great deal that can be done about it.

    Unfortunately, this localised lockdown will put more parents off allowing their kids to come back.
    Kids... well, they were never going to be that good at Social Distancing... but then look at Wales (which has generally had a stricter lockdown that England) and their kids dont have to social distance at all now if they're under 11. That's what will happen in England whether or not the official guidelines change. We've started doing some work with the local council and their events (for young people) are working on a theory that social distancing just wont really happen however much they plan for it.

    As for the pubs and restaurants... i suspect we will always disagree on that one. How long could the government afford to keep furloughing the hospitality industry? Or to pay unemployment benefits for those made redundant if the sector collapsed? Round here all the pubs are running with sensible precautions, and people have been social distancing both inside and out in the gardens.

    Ultimately there's a point where the level of daily deaths has to be seen as acceptable. Flu for example kills thousands a year but that number is considered acceptable and, other than a voluntary vaccination scheme aimed at those at most risk, there is no action taken about Flu by the government. Smoking kills tens of thousands a year, even with current regulations in place. So does obesity but they haven't quarantined McDonalds!
    Last edited by campwarden; 31-07-2020 at 07:14 PM.

  11. #534
    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by campwarden View Post
    Kids... well, they were never going to be that good at Social Distancing... but then look at Wales (which has generally had a stricter lockdown that England) and their kids dont have to social distance at all now if they're under 11. That's what will happen in England whether or not the official guidelines change. We've started doing some work with the local council and their events (for young people) are working on a theory that social distancing just wont really happen however much they plan for it.

    As for the pubs and restaurants... i suspect we will always disagree on that one. How long could the government afford to keep furloughing the hospitality industry? Or to pay unemployment benefits for those made redundant if the sector collapsed? Round here all the pubs are running with sensible precautions, and people have been social distancing both inside and out in the gardens.

    Ultimately there's a point where the level of daily deaths has to be seen as acceptable. Flu for example kills thousands a year but that number is considered acceptable and, other than a voluntary vaccination scheme aimed at those at most risk, there is no action taken about Flu by the government. Smoking kills tens of thousands a year, even with current regulations in place. So does obesity but they haven't quarantined McDonalds!


    Just been into Huddersfield. Passed several pubs and social distancing did not have a showing. This despite the lockdown tightening.

    But, it's all screwed anyway. I can go to the pub but my daughter cant visit... nuts to that. Send the Police round.

    I can run Navs but I can't have a family BBQ. Stuff that.

    We are all right royally screwed by tis virus - and I still think that it could have been avoided.
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



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  13. #535
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushfella View Post
    Just been into Huddersfield. Passed several pubs and social distancing did not have a showing. This despite the lockdown tightening.

    But, it's all screwed anyway. I can go to the pub but my daughter cant visit... nuts to that. Send the Police round.

    I can run Navs but I can't have a family BBQ. Stuff that.

    We are all right royally screwed by tis virus - and I still think that it could have been avoided.
    I think this illustrates why the government didnt want to lock down too early - they knew (quite rightly) that it would be unsustainable. People are fed up of restrictions and I think its fair to say that vast numbers, maybe even a majority, are more focussed on trying to get back to normality than on the virus.

    I work in one of the industries thats still massively affected by this. Fortunately we've been able to adapt to bring in a bit of an income, but its still a fraction of what would normally come in during a summer. But I agree that for now things have probably been unlocked as far as they can. And that's partly due to the fact that people can't follow basic social distancing rules. Its hard to blame the government when they gave guidelines - detailed guidelines - to try and get the country back to normal and people ignored them and went back to normal. Its all very well having guidance on 2 households meeting, but if people are going to get together for parties with 8 households together in a 3 bed mid terraced house then the guidelines are pointless.

  14. #536
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    I think you can blame the government and should. Their advice has been terrible, and the relaxation has been a cynical attempt to outsource responsibility to the mob.

    It's just been a litany of mistakes and utter botches. How soon we forget Cummings' part in this - saying one thing then doing another, then doubling down?

    Go to work, don't go to work. Go to work but avoid public transport?

    It's been a total guddle from day one. They didn't even have the guts to properly lock down when they should have. The half-arsed it...

    But we've had this discussion, and while Sturgeon has been a wee bit clearer up here, she still followed UKGov far too closely, (although I'm not sure she could've done much else right enough...)

    It's all just too depressing... Especially with TSA doing it's thing off the back of it...

    The gravy train rolls on though. Ruth Davidson - the most dishonest and ineffectual leader of the Scottish Tories ever, and inexplicably - Ian Botham (presumably for services to cricket and foot massage) are being ennobled and given a seat in the house of lords.

    Good grief...

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    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    I think you can blame the government and should. Their advice has been terrible, and the relaxation has been a cynical attempt to outsource responsibility to the mob.

    It's just been a litany of mistakes and utter botches. How soon we forget Cummings' part in this - saying one thing then doing another, then doubling down?

    Go to work, don't go to work. Go to work but avoid public transport?

    It's been a total guddle from day one. They didn't even have the guts to properly lock down when they should have. The half-arsed it...

    But we've had this discussion, and while Sturgeon has been a wee bit clearer up here, she still followed UKGov far too closely, (although I'm not sure she could've done much else right enough...)

    It's all just too depressing... Especially with TSA doing it's thing off the back of it...

    The gravy train rolls on though. Ruth Davidson - the most dishonest and ineffectual leader of the Scottish Tories ever, and inexplicably - Ian Botham (presumably for services to cricket and foot massage) are being ennobled and given a seat in the house of lords.

    Good grief...
    Please dont get me started on the house of lords. Although I have no issue with Ian Botham - i have more of an issue with Jo Johnson being handed a peerage. Nothing against the chap personally but surely this is a sign that Boris doesnt actually care how bad it looks. Surely someone must have told him "giving your own brother a seat in the house of lords is going to look as dodgy as..."

    It's interesting to see that poll results have all gone a bit quiet lately... over past months the papers were full of "xx% of people support lockdown" etc... this has all gone very quiet - i can't help wondering if this is because the percentage of people supporting the idea of continued restrictions has dropped to a point where its become clear that most people no longer really "care" about covid.

    From what I can see there are three camps. The "lockdowners"... terrified of the disease, believing (rightly or wrongly) that it poses a serious risk to their health or that of their friends and family, and wanting to keep safe.

    The "return to normals"... not particularly worried, believing (rightly or wrongly) that the risk to them and those close to them is pretty darn low.

    The "balanced" - trying their best to gain useful facts rather than the drivel published in the papers and trying to resume some form of normality whilst maintaining precautions.

    The number of people who only started wearing masks the day it became mandatory shows that those people don't actually believe in the idea of masks... in the same way that the number of people who drive at 80 on the motorway until they spot a police car ahead shows that people only stick to the speed limit because its the law, and not because they actually support it. I would say overnight my local Aldi went from maybe 1 in 20 people wearing a mask, to 1 in 20 people not wearing one. That suggests that 18 out of those 20 people are only wearing it because they are obeying the law.

    And bringing this back on topic, i imagine the same will apply to many in TSA with WRAs... people will only write them because they have to. It will be a half hearted attempt and wont actually do anyone any good. Those who actually believe in the benefits of WRAs and but time and and effort into doing them properly will already be doing them. Those who believe in teh benefits of unwritten DRAs will probably still do one of those in their mind, but download some generic rubbish off the internet to keep the DC/GSL happy

  16. #538
    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    The gravy train rolls on though. Ruth Davidson - the most dishonest and ineffectual leader of the Scottish Tories ever, and inexplicably ... given a seat in the house of lords.

    Good grief...


    I think that she handed that title across to Jackson Carlaw...
    Ewan Scott

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  17. #539
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushfella View Post
    I think that she handed that title across to Jackson Carlaw...
    He just resigned. Lasted 6 months.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by campwarden View Post
    Please dont get me started on the house of lords. Although I have no issue with Ian Botham - i have more of an issue with Jo Johnson being handed a peerage. Nothing against the chap personally but surely this is a sign that Boris doesnt actually care how bad it looks. Surely someone must have told him "giving your own brother a seat in the house of lords is going to look as dodgy as..."

    It's interesting to see that poll results have all gone a bit quiet lately... over past months the papers were full of "xx% of people support lockdown" etc... this has all gone very quiet - i can't help wondering if this is because the percentage of people supporting the idea of continued restrictions has dropped to a point where its become clear that most people no longer really "care" about covid.

    From what I can see there are three camps. The "lockdowners"... terrified of the disease, believing (rightly or wrongly) that it poses a serious risk to their health or that of their friends and family, and wanting to keep safe.

    The "return to normals"... not particularly worried, believing (rightly or wrongly) that the risk to them and those close to them is pretty darn low.

    The "balanced" - trying their best to gain useful facts rather than the drivel published in the papers and trying to resume some form of normality whilst maintaining precautions.

    The number of people who only started wearing masks the day it became mandatory shows that those people don't actually believe in the idea of masks... in the same way that the number of people who drive at 80 on the motorway until they spot a police car ahead shows that people only stick to the speed limit because its the law, and not because they actually support it. I would say overnight my local Aldi went from maybe 1 in 20 people wearing a mask, to 1 in 20 people not wearing one. That suggests that 18 out of those 20 people are only wearing it because they are obeying the law.

    And bringing this back on topic, i imagine the same will apply to many in TSA with WRAs... people will only write them because they have to. It will be a half hearted attempt and wont actually do anyone any good. Those who actually believe in the benefits of WRAs and but time and and effort into doing them properly will already be doing them. Those who believe in teh benefits of unwritten DRAs will probably still do one of those in their mind, but download some generic rubbish off the internet to keep the DC/GSL happy
    Agree and disagree in places, which is normal and healthy.

    I think most people are just looking for clear info and instruction and mostly not finding it. I think there are still some people (most maybe?) who are wearing masks because they've been told it's the right thing to do, not just because they've been told. I think that misrepresents things slightly.

    But, with how governments have comported themselves on these islands (as politicians are so fond of calling them), it's difficult to take much of what they say seriously.

    I'm still trying to figure out why they'd ennoble Ian Botham, did he not already have some honour or other? But appreciate it's a topic for another place.

    Agree about the WRA's. If I decide to continue, it will be in the manner you describe.

  18. #540
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    It worries me that out of the regular contributors on here:

    At least three are former scouters who left under something of a cloud

    At least one more has just resigned

    One has retired due to ill health

    One is retiring from a GSL role to seek a role with less admin

    At least 3 have expressed thoughts of leaving

    At this rate, Rising Star might be the only active scouter left on escouts!!

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