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Thread: Scout campsites should think about electrick hookup pitches

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by campwarden View Post
    I beleive the Outlander Mk2 was sold badged as a Peugeot and also as a Citroen. It was available with a choice of engines over its lifespan... the VW and Mitsubishi engines used were fine but the PSA (citroen/peugeot) one is now known for having issues. I cant imagine why anyone would want to take a car from a reliable Japanese manufacturer and stick a dodgy euro engine in it!
    There's one specific PSA engine that had major problems, the 1.6HDi of about 5-10 years ago, I believe. It tended to eat turbos because the muck would build up in the bottom of the sump and get sucked into the turbo. Because it contaminated the feeder pipes, if one went they'd keep going, the only way to prevent it was meticulously sticking to the servicing schedule and doing it by dropping the oil from the drain plug, hoovering it out of the dipstick hole as most "fast fit" type places do doesn't get it all out. (Ironically those who serviced themselves by dropping the oil conventionally would be in a better position than those who paid for someone other than a main dealer to do it!)

    The issue only affected that engine (not the 2.0HDi) and later ones had some sort of modification to reduce the issue, I think it involved fitting some sort of filter to catch the muck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dralphs View Post
    Smell of a few hissing Tilley lamps

    And either travelling to camp sat on the tents in back of van or (shock horror) being allowed as 14yr olds to cycle to camp, stopping overnight wherever we could find somewhere usually the back of a pub beer garden or similar
    Tilley lamps in back of t'beer garden! Eeee sheer luxury. In my day we hunted down a wild moose and used its fat to produce a night light and wrapped the skin around us to keep warm. And that was in a premium camp site!

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    Quote Originally Posted by campwarden View Post
    I beleive the Outlander Mk2 was sold badged as a Peugeot and also as a Citroen. It was available with a choice of engines over its lifespan... the VW and Mitsubishi engines used were fine but the PSA (citroen/peugeot) one is now known for having issues. I cant imagine why anyone would want to take a car from a reliable Japanese manufacturer and stick a dodgy euro engine in it.
    Mine had the Mitsubishi engine (so I’m told) as one of our leader’s husbands was very proud of it as he worked for Cummins and had been instrumental in part of the design
    Last edited by [email protected]; 21-08-2020 at 06:17 AM.
    Chris

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  6. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard T View Post
    I've also soon some shocking examples of high ( ie mains level) voltage on camps from extension leads and sockets sitting semi submerged in water, to a 240v set up using inverters on lorry batteries and the metal frame of a tent producing a slight shock.
    Had a summer camp at Buddens in Dorset and you got a tingle from the frames of the Coleman shelters which were set up under the power lines!
    Most sites where we've had summer camps we've had the use of a hut or building with power available, useful for keeping leaders phones and laptops charged. Last big camp we went to they specifically said no generators. My portable solar panels and car battery were all we needed for the week.
    Andy
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    www.wellingtonscouts.org

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robin Hood View Post
    Yes, I remember the Olden Days as well. We didn't have mobile phones, so we had to find a phone box or ask the Camp Warden to use his / her phone! Good times!
    +1.

    I'm still getting used to people driving vehicles, electric or not, onto pitches at Scout sites. It used to be that you'd turn up and, if you were lucky, the warden might chuck your kit on a trailer and transport it to your site. Most of the time though, you dumped it out of cars in the car park and used the handy Scout Troop that you happened to have brought with you to carry it. Even the mess tent. At the end, you tried to have got it back there before the parents arrived.

    Electric hookups will please some and not others. Variety is the spice of life. We camped at Eaton Vale (Norwich) the other year, and our site had a shed with a fridge and (obviously) power. My ASL was looking after the food, and it made her life much easier. It still felt a bit "not Scout camping" to me, but I'm an old fuddy-duddy I suppose. Nice site though and I'd happily go back, it's just that the electricity wouldn't make any difference either way to my deciding to do that.

    Perversely, it was the only year we've ever had sickness on camp, but I'm fairly sure that was something someone brought from home and passed around - if it had been food poisoning, it would have been everyone at once, instead of different people going down on different days. It hit me the day we got home, when I took my wife out for dinner

    I also get laughed at for my tiny hike tents, when others are in family tents

    But then I remember my first ever camp with the Troop, a joint Scout and Guide county event in 1982. I wandered past one Company's mess tent, and they'd got upright cookers and fridges in there (gas powered, must have been). It was like being at home. Which was where I was not trying to be at the time, as I like camp to be different.
    Last edited by DKRSL; 26-08-2020 at 10:07 PM.
    SL, 11th Hitchin

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    Quote Originally Posted by DKRSL View Post
    +1.
    I also get laughed at for my tiny hike tents, when others are in family tents
    My cubs used to think it was hilarious when I would camp in a tent not much bigger than me...
    Chris

    Akela - 8th Mirfield
    Heavy Woollen District


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    I like, when I reasonably can, to cycle to camp. That means when I'm not driving the bus, and we're not going so far that I'd arrive very late. I try to carry all my kit on the bike. A family tent would make it harder. But even on summer camp I only use a 3-man tent.

    I've never quite got over being a Venture Scout 40 years ago, when a lot of our camping was on hikes.
    SL, 11th Hitchin

  10. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by DKRSL View Post
    +1.

    I'm still getting used to people driving vehicles, electric or not, onto pitches at Scout sites. It used to be that you'd turn up and, if you were lucky, the warden might chuck your kit on a trailer and transport it to your site. Most of the time though, you dumped it out of cars in the car park and used the handy Scout Troop that you happened to have brought with you to carry it. Even the mess tent. At the end, you tried to have got it back there before the parents arrived.
    There still are sites like that. I can understand in wet weather not wanting vehicles driving onto the grass, and even sites not wanting mass vehicle movements all around them, but wardens who don't allow leaders to drive a kit van along a surfaced track to unload at the edge of their pitch are just being deliberately obtuse.

    Among my leaset favourites are the sites who insist on towing your trailer across the site for you - even when you've turned up with it on a big 4x4 that's far more capable of crossing the site than the ride on mower they are planning to tow it with, and which isn't really up to the job of towing a 3 tonne loaded horsebox

    I'm not for one second suggesting scout campsites should resemble car boot sales, but making things deliberately awkward (particularly for things like cub camps where leaders will often arrive early to get mess tent, kitchen, etc set up before the kids arrive) really doesnt achieve anything for anyone.

    I suspect these things tend to stem from a risk assessment written by someone who thinks "letting anyone other than the warden drive on site is dangerous".


    Electric hookups will please some and not others. Variety is the spice of life. We camped at Eaton Vale (Norwich) the other year, and our site had a shed with a fridge and (obviously) power. My ASL was looking after the food, and it made her life much easier. It still felt a bit "not Scout camping" to me, but I'm an old fuddy-duddy I suppose. Nice site though and I'd happily go back, it's just that the electricity wouldn't make any difference either way to my deciding to do that.

    Perversely, it was the only year we've ever had sickness on camp, but I'm fairly sure that was something someone brought from home and passed around - if it had been food poisoning, it would have been everyone at once, instead of different people going down on different days. It hit me the day we got home, when I took my wife out for dinner

    I also get laughed at for my tiny hike tents, when others are in family tents

    But then I remember my first ever camp with the Troop, a joint Scout and Guide county event in 1982. I wandered past one Company's mess tent, and they'd got upright cookers and fridges in there (gas powered, must have been). It was like being at home. Which was where I was not trying to be at the time, as I like camp to be different.
    Its horses for courses really. If I was running a big group camp and catering for 150 people i'd probably want a hut with a commercial style kitchen and large fridges. We used to do scout summer camps greenfield, with mainly patrol catering but some centrally catered meals and would take three double gas rings and a gas fridge. The patrols would cook on fires. For greenfield camps we would take a generator to run for a limited amount of time each day to keep phones etc topped up and to give the electric coolboxes a boost... and at one point we had electric lighting for the marquee (some of the cub summer camp sites we used had the facility to hook up to the mains) but towards the end of my time we switched to a battery based lighting system and i think we were pretty close to weaning ourselves off the generator... a few charge packs and one more gas fridge would have done it and we were looking at mounting a heavy duty 4kw inverter under the front seats of the minibus to allow us to use the minibus as a generator if we really needed mains power for something (e.g. summer camp we'd sometimes take a small printer and laminator in case we needed to change hike routes or other activities on the go)

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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    My cubs used to think it was hilarious when I would camp in a tent not much bigger than me...
    If there are trees (and there almost always are) I go for the hammock and tarp, which seems to mystify anyone who hasn't tried it.

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    There still are sites like that. I can understand in wet weather not wanting vehicles driving onto the grass, and even sites not wanting mass vehicle movements all around them, but wardens who don't allow leaders to drive a kit van along a surfaced track to unload at the edge of their pitch are just being deliberately obtuse.

    Among my leaset favourites are the sites who insist on towing your trailer across the site for you - even when you've turned up with it on a big 4x4 that's far more capable of crossing the site than the ride on mower they are planning to tow it with, and which isn't really up to the job of towing a 3 tonne loaded horsebox
    Theres a site like that near Derby, we dont use it any more due to the awkwardness of getting on site - on the last occasion we pulled out all the stops to ensure that we could be there with enough time to set up the mess tent etc before everyone else arrived and it started to get dark.
    Instead we spent a large amount of time sat waiting for the warden to arrive in the car park, in order so that they could un hitch the trailer and then drive it round the loop road which covers most parts of the site. Its understandable if they dont want you to drive onto the grass, or have parents clogging up the roadways, but when the site is practically empty not allowing the main kit vehicle onto the access roads i cant see any reason other than to be awkward.

    A few other alternatives we use: Kibblestone: has a roadway with pull in points/side roads that you can get the kit trailer/van along ( parents park in car parks) no issues getting on/off that site
    Willersley ( nice small campsite near Ashby) most pitches accessible from car parks - small spine track that we have been able to drive the kit trailer up unload, and then move vehicles with camp kit back to car park
    Walesby ( not to be confused with Willersley, which has happened on more than one occasion) roadway access controlled by barrier/keypad - code given if you need to get kit on/off site
    Oaks in charnwood - access track that can be used for unloading kit
    Come To Tolmers week long summer activity Camps - Tolmers, have allowed vehicles on the roadways and grass ( if your a long distance from a car park) unload trailer right by your pitch, then move vehicle to car park this also which means if you need to do a big shop you can drive right upto the mess tent/marquee and unload, the only ask there has been for vehicles not to move through the site at night, or during an activity session change time



    As for Electric hook ups on camps, i can see a future need for EV charge points that you could book /pay for as required, but not on site for general pitches, most groups will be rigged for "off grid" camping either using gas lights and stoves/cooking on fires, or LED lighting with battery packs, if people start to get used to mains electricity on camps then that opens up a whole world of issues ( electrical safety+wet canvas+metal poles+bad earthing) as well as an expectation that power will be required - so need to pack that cheap generator that we can have loudly chugging away next to the mess tent all weekend annoying anyone/everyone else on site

  14. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard T View Post
    Theres a site like that near Derby, we dont use it any more due to the awkwardness of getting on site - on the last occasion we pulled out all the stops to ensure that we could be there with enough time to set up the mess tent etc before everyone else arrived and it started to get dark.
    Instead we spent a large amount of time sat waiting for the warden to arrive in the car park, in order so that they could un hitch the trailer and then drive it round the loop road which covers most parts of the site. Its understandable if they dont want you to drive onto the grass, or have parents clogging up the roadways, but when the site is practically empty not allowing the main kit vehicle onto the access roads i cant see any reason other than to be awkward.

    A few other alternatives we use: Kibblestone: has a roadway with pull in points/side roads that you can get the kit trailer/van along ( parents park in car parks) no issues getting on/off that site
    Willersley ( nice small campsite near Ashby) most pitches accessible from car parks - small spine track that we have been able to drive the kit trailer up unload, and then move vehicles with camp kit back to car park
    Walesby ( not to be confused with Willersley, which has happened on more than one occasion) roadway access controlled by barrier/keypad - code given if you need to get kit on/off site
    Oaks in charnwood - access track that can be used for unloading kit
    Come To Tolmers week long summer activity Camps - Tolmers, have allowed vehicles on the roadways and grass ( if your a long distance from a car park) unload trailer right by your pitch, then move vehicle to car park this also which means if you need to do a big shop you can drive right upto the mess tent/marquee and unload, the only ask there has been for vehicles not to move through the site at night, or during an activity session change time
    From my experience:

    Nine Ashes (Cornwall) - will tow your trailer across the site. Trailers can be left on pitches once there (always seems daft making groups move them back to the car park, and we used to use ours as the QM's stores)

    Botany Bay (Monmouth) Car park and an unloading point by the building, no vehicle access onto the field. Carry everything.

    Chelwood (Bath) - Drive to your pitch.

    Woodhouse Park (Bristol) - Access roads close to all pitches, unload next to your pitch. Small car parks throughout and a main car park at the entrance.

    Cranham (Gloucester) - A couple of parking spaces next to each pitch (we used these for the minibus and trailer and any other cars went in the car park)

    I dont understand sites who seem to be deliberately awkward. Surely one of the scout laws is "A scout makes good use of time". Good use of time is not unloading a trailer and carrying equipment 250m across a dry flat field that the trailer could easily be driven across. Nor is it double-handling everything out of the group trailer, into the warden's trailer, and then out again at the pitch.

    There seem to be two types of campsite warden (both within scouting and in the public camping world). Those who see their job as ensuring that site users can have a great time with the best possible facilities and leave with a smile on their faces, and those who see themselves as the guardians of the grass, constantly patrolling and enforcing petty rules that achieve very little.

    I would much rather see a field with a few muddy ruts in it than a group of grumpy kids and leaders lugging mess tents and trestle tables across immaculate grass


    As for Electric hook ups on camps, i can see a future need for EV charge points that you could book /pay for as required, but not on site for general pitches, most groups will be rigged for "off grid" camping either using gas lights and stoves/cooking on fires, or LED lighting with battery packs, if people start to get used to mains electricity on camps then that opens up a whole world of issues ( electrical safety+wet canvas+metal poles+bad earthing) as well as an expectation that power will be required - so need to pack that cheap generator that we can have loudly chugging away next to the mess tent all weekend annoying anyone/everyone else on site
    I think the option for EHU (for camping) is just that. An option. Some sites offer it, others dont. Some would use it, others wouldn't. If we've noticed on a site visit that its an option and its not particularly expensive then we've gone for it a couple of times.

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    I really don't mind it. Like I said, I'm not expecting a public camp site. And I always have that Scout Troop to hand to do the work. It was easier maybe when you had some seriously big Patrol Leaders...

    I'm happy knowing that vehicles will not be coming near my pitch.

    But times change. And people take more kit now.
    SL, 11th Hitchin

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    I can understand it with campsites like Youlbury where there isn't access for cars/vans to every site and limited parking on site (large camps park in field opposite), or like Horley where they prefer people to park in the car park and drop kids off reducing the movement on site but leaders and kit vans/trailers can park next to your site.

    I do have issues with wardens insisting on towing trailers to site. If i'm towing and it breaks or gets damaged its my fault my liability. But if you are towing it (especially if the vehicle is unsuitable or its a young gu-ho driver) and you break it or damage it you will be footing the bill for repairing it.

    I also have issues with being told to leave trailers in the car park often some distance away and out of sight. Around here its not unheard of for a certain community to drive in and make off with anything not bolted down.
    Dave Ralphs
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    I work for O2, any posts are my own personal views & do not represent O2

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    Quote Originally Posted by dralphs View Post
    I can understand it with campsites like Youlbury where there isn't access for cars/vans to every site and limited parking on site (large camps park in field opposite), or like Horley where they prefer people to park in the car park and drop kids off reducing the movement on site but leaders and kit vans/trailers can park next to your site.

    I do have issues with wardens insisting on towing trailers to site. If i'm towing and it breaks or gets damaged its my fault my liability. But if you are towing it (especially if the vehicle is unsuitable or its a young gu-ho driver) and you break it or damage it you will be footing the bill for repairing it.

    I also have issues with being told to leave trailers in the car park often some distance away and out of sight. Around here its not unheard of for a certain community to drive in and make off with anything not bolted down.
    Even the heaviest of ride on lawnmower isn't going to be more than 1/2 a tonne. If a 3 tonne box trailer starts to slide somewhere, the mower isn't going to stop it. The minibus or large 4x4 that the trailer invariably went to camp on would stand far more of a chance. I towed our trailer in and out of some fairly dodgy field entrances when greenfield camping, but i knew I was doing it with an appropriate vehicle and I knew what I was doing. I also knew the size of the trailer and how much space it needed to get through gateways etc. And unlike a warden on the mower I had wing mirrors to see what the trailer was doing.

    And I agree - i never felt comfortable leaving expensive equipment lying around in a car park either because stuff does have a habit of walking from remote campsite car parks overnight. A nearby canoe club took the sensible precaution of using a hitch lock to attach the trailer to the tow ball of a van, only to find that the tow hitch had been unbolted from the van in the night. We bought a heavy duty motorcycle chain-lock and a wheel clamp but i'm sure even that wouldn't have stopped determined ne'er-do-wells.

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  19. #75
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    I also have issues with being told to leave trailers in the car park often some distance away and out of sight. Around here its not unheard of for a certain community to drive in and make off with anything not bolted down.
    Would there be any valid reason for insisting for trailers being returned to the car park other than its just the way we do it? I've yet to come across this rule anywhere, but it ould probably be met with a polite variation of FRO

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