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Thread: Another (partial) farewell

  1. #1
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    Another (partial) farewell

    Another (partial) farewell

    I had accepted a new dual role as County Dofe Cordinator and QSA Administrator and quite rightly as part of that i was asked to reduce my other roles.

    I resigned from my district dofe advisor and district exec roles after xmas and am looking to hand over group admin and group treasurer as soon as possible.

    Well its now become apparent that the new role (for various reasons that i can't go into on a public forum) isn't for me. This is exacerbated by the well publicised changes TSA are bringing in so with a heavy heart i decided i had no choice but to resign and have deleted all my Scouts FB & Email accounts.

    Once i manage to hand over the group roles after nearly 40 years i may not have any Scouting roles at all.

    If i haven't burnt my bridges beyond salvation i may stay as a county ta but not sure at present and it may be out of my hands.

    In any case i'll still lurk on here as you get a better class of discussion compared to FB
    Dave Ralphs
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    Quote Originally Posted by dralphs View Post
    Another (partial) farewell

    I had accepted a new dual role as County Dofe Cordinator and QSA Administrator and quite rightly as part of that i was asked to reduce my other roles.

    I resigned from my district dofe advisor and district exec roles after xmas and am looking to hand over group admin and group treasurer as soon as possible.

    Well its now become apparent that the new role (for various reasons that i can't go into on a public forum) isn't for me. This is exacerbated by the well publicised changes TSA are bringing in so with a heavy heart i decided i had no choice but to resign and have deleted all my Scouts FB & Email accounts.

    Once i manage to hand over the group roles after nearly 40 years i may not have any Scouting roles at all.

    If i haven't burnt my bridges beyond salvation i may stay as a county ta but not sure at present and it may be out of my hands.

    In any case i'll still lurk on here as you get a better class of discussion compared to FB
    I am sure that with a lot of experience someone will ask you to remain in one or more of your roles once they know that you are not taking the original roles you were taking.

    If not there will be an opening if you want one.

    Otherwise enjoy the retirement.

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    As Dave said, there'll be opportunities for you if you wish to continue. Either within TSA or outside of it.

    Perhaps before long the forum will need to be renamed from Escouts to ExScouts?

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    Its going to take a few months to hand over the treasurer role, at least there is now not the urgency there was before.

    If they will have me i'll stay as a TA and dofe assessor but it may be i'm personae not gratia

    I'm still involved with the pedalcars and thats going to need a lot of work to rebuild after Covid so happy to direct my time and energy there especially as compared to some organisations it is far more open & friendly.
    Dave Ralphs
    Retiring Yarnton Scout Group (Treasurer)
    Former DofE Advisor & District Exec Member - Oxford Spires
    http://yarntonscouts.org.uk/

    I work for O2, any posts are my own personal views & do not represent O2

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    Quote Originally Posted by campwarden View Post
    As Dave said, there'll be opportunities for you if you wish to continue. Either within TSA or outside of it.

    Perhaps before long the forum will need to be renamed from Escouts to ExScouts?
    Beginning to think that myself.

    TSA doesn't want experienced volunteers, it wants volunteers who tick all the boxes they're being told to tick.

    Like dralphs, I was trying to think of ways I could stay on board, but to be honest, the entire ethos of volunteering with TSA has changed, and I can't quite see where or how I might fit in.

    Which is fair enough - these things happen, things change, they always do. But it does rather lend credence to idea that any sense of ownership of that which you may have built up or contributed to, counts for nothing in the final analysis. Scouting doesn't belong to the local community or to the people that keep it running. It belongs to line management and HQ.

    A cheery message to return with.


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    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    Which is fair enough - these things happen, things change, they always do. But it does rather lend credence to idea that any sense of ownership of that which you may have built up or contributed to, counts for nothing in the final analysis. Scouting doesn't belong to the local community or to the people that keep it running. It belongs to line management and HQ.
    That's true of most things. The only way to ensure a business or organisation belongs to you is to set it up and own it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Williams View Post
    That's true of most things. The only way to ensure a business or organisation belongs to you is to set it up and own it.
    In theory a charity will never "belong" to an individual... because they can always be replaced on the board of trustees, potentially against their will.

    One of the charities I am a trustee of very much "belongs" to the person who founded it. But hopefully in time when they retire it will keep going. And in all fairness to them they are always very much open to input from the other trustees

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    Quote Originally Posted by campwarden View Post
    In theory a charity will never "belong" to an individual... because they can always be replaced on the board of trustees, potentially against their will.
    Yes, true. I suppose you can create a commercial profit-making business that has charitable purpose (i.e. you donate the profits to charity), though you don't get many of the benefits of being an actual charity if you do that. As long as you're the only shareholder it's pretty hard to kick you out

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Williams View Post
    That's true of most things. The only way to ensure a business or organisation belongs to you is to set it up and own it.
    I disagree, because it also depends on the structure of the charity or organisation. Groups are their own charities, so in our case, there really isn't anything to stop this from being the case. My wider point was (is), while it's not the only way to engage and enthuse people - a sense of ownership is one of the biggest drivers when it comes to volunteering. And in the case of Scouting, 'management' not listening, I feel is not suited to an organisation that relies on goodwill to get on.

    Speaking for myself, I managed it for most of my life up till about six months ago.

    We're slightly anomalous here. The changes which have occurred gradually elsewhere are happening overnight here. That coupled with what's coming down from an earless HQ, means it's all quite jarring for many.

    *Edit* What Campwarden says is also a point. It's not about being sole owner, it's about having a sense of ownership. I'm not particularly interesting in the former, (indeed, I'm not sure that's really healthy for an organisation if you have longevity in mind for it). But I think the latter is certainly possible if it's managed properly. */edit*
    Last edited by pa_broon74; 12-02-2021 at 09:33 AM.

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  16. #10
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    Any DC that doesn't support developing "Espirit De Corps" and ownership isn't worthy of the role. Its the root of successful organisations. Inter dependent and keen to support others, absolutely, but a sense of belonging and ownership is key.

    It sounds like you may have a challenging leadership issue

    Good news is that DCs have a maximum tenure of 10 years........

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    Quote Originally Posted by richardnhunt View Post
    Any DC that doesn't support developing "Espirit De Corps" and ownership isn't worthy of the role. Its the root of successful organisations. Inter dependent and keen to support others, absolutely, but a sense of belonging and ownership is key.

    It sounds like you may have a challenging leadership issue

    Good news is that DCs have a maximum tenure of 10 years........
    It's not the DC though. It's the structure and rules. I'm positive our DC would encourage esprit de corp, but they're having to do what POR tells them to do.

    I think there is a bit of a feedback loop in middle-to-upper management. It's like a motor motoring away - but it's not actually connected to anything, there's just this flywheel spinning away - it looks busy and purposeful, but it's not actually doing anything meaningful. Meanwhile, groups muddle on regardless.

    I'm definitely biased though, I just don't see the point of the bureaucracy. We managed for years without it. Literally all it's doing, is forcing us to spend more time doing admin which is proven to be pointless. I get it with new leaders, they'll need support, but that wasn't happening either. So it's all a bit moot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by richardnhunt View Post
    Any DC that doesn't support developing "Espirit De Corps" and ownership isn't worthy of the role. Its the root of successful organisations. Inter dependent and keen to support others, absolutely, but a sense of belonging and ownership is key.

    It sounds like you may have a challenging leadership issue

    Good news is that DCs have a maximum tenure of 10 years........
    Donít bet on a DC only in role ten years.

    I know a current DC who has been in role 25 years or so.

    They wanted to carry on and the CC wanted them to carry on so they had a short break in another role (6 months I think) whilst being Ďactingí DC then was appointed to the role again.

    New CC now so it may not happen next time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daveb123 View Post
    Don’t bet on a DC only in role ten years.

    I know a current DC who has been in role 25 years or so.

    They wanted to carry on and the CC wanted them to carry on so they had a short break in another role (6 months I think) whilst being ‘acting’ DC then was appointed to the role again.

    New CC now so it may not happen next time.
    Where as here a good county commissioner resigned because he couldn't extend a good DC.

    Still think it is a good rule though

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    It's not the DC though. It's the structure and rules. I'm positive our DC would encourage esprit de corp, but they're having to do what POR tells them to do.
    Interestingly I had the same issue with a past DC and not with the present one

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    Quote Originally Posted by richardnhunt View Post
    Where as here a good county commissioner resigned because he couldn't extend a good DC.

    Still think it is a good rule though
    I was just going to say this. If you get good people, having to get rid early would be a blow. But then, maybe you need through-put - keep things fresh? But then, you might get someone in who wants to be in for perhaps the wrong reasons...

    Perhaps there's no perfect model...

    I think we're still in the position of people reluctantly taking it on.

    Of course, one answer, would be to pair line management, district, region etc back to the bare minimum, devolve 99% of responsibility to GSL's - then it wouldn't be an issue. One person in a group being a difficult is more manageable than one person overseeing 20 groups - which is a much bigger problem...

    Maybe.

  21. #15
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    There's always a Scouting role for you somewhere - even if it isn't in your current district or group, it could be in a neighbouring one, or maybe in another association.

    Have a think about what sort of role you would be interested in doing, and look at where you might be able to do it, where there's a vacancy.

    Obviously I don't know what's happened which might have burnt bridges for you locally, but if you have, and can work to repair them then it might be worth doing so.

    It does concern me about this practice that has been mentioned to keep a DC in their post by using a loophole to get around TSA rules. There's a good reason that commissioners have fixed terms and none one should be trying to play the system to keep someone in the role for longer than their term.
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