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Thread: Dinosaurs

  1. #16
    Senior Member Kastor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRH View Post
    Idealy in a real world this would be a great idea, but the difficulty in recruiting leaders means that at times you are stuck with the same old faces. I would agree that people have to be open to new ideas and should be willling to try new things or ideas. Aswell you should not always discount old ways of doing things, there my be some merit as to why they have lasted so long.
    I'm afraid I'd argue that a lot of the reason we can't get new Leaders is the Dinosaurs. Several people have told me they would love to help but not if xxxx is there. I myself have been offered a position that I won't take because of people in other positions that I would become responsible for. I get enough grief at work, I'm not going to volunteer to get some more.
    To get more kids we need more adults - are we getting the message yet?

  2. #17
    Senior Member Kastor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnmcmahon View Post
    Brontosaurus here ........ I did hear of a Leader who didn't start this game until he was 50 years old. He was born 22/2/1857. Perhaps you've heard of him? :

    And another born 5/3/54 who only recently started playing the game recently ..........


    When I were a young buck I agreed wholeheartedly with Kastor, but now I've grown up and realise that without us olduns there would be no Scouts, Cubs, Beavers, District, County because we'd have noone to run them .....

    Yes, it's a young 'uns game. That's why we have PL's and Sixers.


    But we also need the stability of us Dino's.

    If you've got some young un's who can take on the following for me, I will gladly stand down;

    ADC
    SL
    GSL
    QM
    Camp Site team
    Web site author
    NA Advisor
    etc,


    While I'm here I would like to thank PD for my pay rise this year. In recognition of the 33 years warranted service I've had a 330% pay rise and time and a half for weekends!

    Fantastic!
    I'm not saying that you retire on age, nor that you retire from Scouting based on service, only that you don't have the same Leadership position for more than 10 years.

    Another problem that you highlight is that if a position is not vacant then no one will apply for it - why should they? People don't want to be pushy and don't want to upset someone who is doing all these things for the District/Group by trying to take one off them.
    To get more kids we need more adults - are we getting the message yet?

  3. #18
    Senior Member neilr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phil_cole View Post
    Yep. He was a little strange. I think most of us involved in the course went away after and looked at the website for the Group and Pack (which the participant had put together). The Pack still has this for uniform:
    1. Dark green long sleeved jumper
    2. Correctly rolled and ironed group scarf.
    3. Navy blue or grey short trousers
    4. Knee-length turn-over grey socks
    5. Elasticated garters with bottle-green tabs


    Note numbers 4 & 5...

    Phil
    The last time I was in uniform, before becoming a Scout Leader this year, this is what I was wearing, plus of course a green cap! In fact I think we were one of the last packs (6th Fulwood) to carry a yellow wolf cub flag at St Georges day Parade in Preston. I think that was about 1974. As you may guess I have had a bit of catching up to do as to the modern way of scouting. I hope that I am not too much of a dinasaur, and I try not to harp back to how things were in my day, mainly because I can't remember that far back with much clarity.
    Neil Rowland
    AGSL & SL 12th West Lothian (Knightsridge) Scouts


    www.12thwestlothianscouts.org.uk

    Who hath smelt wood-smoke at twilight? Who hath heard the birch log burning?
    Who is quick to read the noises of the night?
    Let him follow with the others:
    For the young men's feet are turning to the camps of proved desire and known delight!

    Rudyard Kipling

  4. #19
    GSL & AESL shiftypete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith at 2M View Post
    Does a DESC who keeps referring to Explorers as Rovers qualify for fast track extinction?
    Yes as clearly his memory is going given the Rover age range was equivalent to Network not Explorers. Senior Scouts were the equivalent age range to Explorers.
    (PS No I am not old enough to remember that I learnt it while researching our Scout Group History this year)

    Peter Andrews AESL of Headingley Pirates ESU, Group Scout Leader & Webmaster of Falkoner Scout Group
    www.falkonerscouts.org.uk

    Previous Scouting Roles
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    2017-2018 AGSL

    Wike, North Leeds District Campsite - www.wikecampsite.org.uk
    www.leeds-solar.co.uk
    Please note all views expressed are my own and not those of any organisation I'm associated with

  5. #20
    AESL, ABSL Chug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnmcmahon View Post
    Brontosaurus here ........ I did hear of a Leader who didn't start this game until he was 50 years old. He was born 22/2/1857. Perhaps you've heard of him? :

    And another born 5/3/54 who only recently started playing the game recently ..........


    When I were a young buck I agreed wholeheartedly with Kastor, but now I've grown up and realise that without us olduns there would be no Scouts, Cubs, Beavers, District, County because we'd have noone to run them .....

    Yes, it's a young 'uns game. That's why we have PL's and Sixers.


    But we also need the stability of us Dino's.

    If you've got some young un's who can take on the following for me, I will gladly stand down;

    ADC
    SL
    GSL
    QM
    Camp Site team
    Web site author
    NA Advisor
    etc,


    While I'm here I would like to thank PD for my pay rise this year. In recognition of the 33 years warranted service I've had a 330% pay rise and time and a half for weekends!

    Fantastic!
    The discussion is about the dinosaurs in attitude, those who dismiss anything new, and by new I mean anything that's happend since BP died. I was having a blazing row with a Network Scout on another forum who was proud to say that he'd forced all the girls out of his unit because he didn't believe they should be Scouts.

    Remember; Some people are like "Slinky's". Worthless, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs.

    Mrs Chug has earnt her woodbeads

    WWW.RAMILLIES-ESSU.ORG.UK

  6. #21
    Keith at 2M Keith at 2M's Avatar
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    Reading the above I suppose I qualify as a Dinosaur - I started helping with a Pack in 1979 and still run programmes from my glory days in the 1980s although, I am allowing evolution to take place as they are heavily vetted by my Young Leaders who remove all the 'dated' bits, often to great sadness on my part, but there you go, we are a movement, not a vehicle for old men's nostalgia.
    The Roman Empire did not become great by holding meetings. It did so by killing everyone that opposed their point of view.

  7. #22
    Senior Member wolfie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith at 2M View Post
    Reading the above I suppose I qualify as a Dinosaur - I started helping with a Pack in 1979 and still run programmes from my glory days in the 1980s although, I am allowing evolution to take place as they are heavily vetted by my Young Leaders who remove all the 'dated' bits, often to great sadness on my part, but there you go, we are a movement, not a vehicle for old men's nostalgia.

    Nope - your very comments mean you are not one, as you acknowledge "we are a movement" and you're willing to let YLs work with you to put a programme together.

    Luckily I have only come across a few complete dinosaurs, as most people eventually acknowledge that what we should focus on is the children - sometimes the "old ways" are the best, sometimes the "new ways" and more often than not a good mix of both

    I have to say on a personal note dinosaurs are bad enough, but ostriches are even worse....people who bury their heads in the sand hoping whatever they are ignoring will just go away. As we all know it rarely does, and in the meantime difficult situations arise that would be resolved much better and quicker if the very issues had been dealt with at the start!
    Louise

    GSL 1st Fenstanton & Hilton Scout Group www.scubes.co.uk


    TA - Cromwell District (Cambridgeshire)

    Media Manager - Cubjam2016

    We cannot always build the future for our youth, but we can build our youth for the future.
    -- Franklin D. Roosevelt

  8. #23
    Senior Moments Penny E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chug View Post
    I was having a blazing row with a Network Scout on another forum who was proud to say that he'd forced all the girls out of his unit because he didn't believe they should be Scouts.
    Good for you Chug. At our Cub camp a couple of weeks ago one of the girls was sick at 10.30pm on the Saturday evening - clearly a bug of some sort. In between throwing up she was begging me not to call her Mum because she didn't want to go home. I'm afraid I couldn't imagine any of the boys having been as determined!

    I did call Mum (of course) but the girl bounced back to camp next morning, determined not to miss a minute of the fun.

    Oh, and the first 7 Cubs to sign up for camp were all of the girls in the Pack.

  9. #24
    Proud Scout in Wales Skip Ian's Avatar
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    I'm 30 and am feeling a bit of a dinosaur. I too have difficulty letting go of the experiances I had as a Scout in the 80/90's. I appreciate that people are dinosaurs because they won't move forward and I'm guilty of this to an extent.

    I do however fall at the feet of P.O.R and one great thing about P.O.R is that although writen by people with experiance it seems to change with the times and needs of Scouts. I try not to be a dinosaur but I do fear becoming one.

    The issue with most dinosaurs is that they won't change and that they follow the rules so I feel following P.O.R can to some extent dispell dinosaurs. If a Group has a dinosaur I thought the general approach was to encourage them to go into the exec as to keep a link and use their experiance for that but i'm probably wrong.

    And where do I buy elasticated Garters I reakon they'll suit me?
    "A life spent making mistakes is not only more honourable but more useful than a life spent doing nothing"

    George Bernard Shaw
    [1856-1950]

  10. #25
    DESC - Richmond RichmondDESC's Avatar
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    I feel we should tread carefully here so as to not actually upset any of those so-called dinosaurs - they do have a wealth of knowledge that can be drawn on. We just need to find a way of mothballing them and wheeling them out when needed.

    On another dino-related note, I understand Knotso was very sad when the original dinosaurs became extinct, he had become quite friendly with a few of them.....
    You are only young once - but you can be immature forever!

  11. #26
    Keith at 2M Keith at 2M's Avatar
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    Sadly the evolutionary process of promoting the dinosaurs to executives, District Posts etc eventually backfires when we then have to deal with them in their new more 'important' environment resulting in the younger more progressive leaders leaving because they are deciding there are better things they can do with their time.
    As an example, why battle with a dinosaur over water activities when the local commercial centre will welcome you with open arms, pay you and not subject you to excesses of paperwork, rules & local restrictions? Ironically, due to the lack of volunteers many Scout Groups are now having to pay for their boating which is being run by the very leaders they have driven out! So you get to work with the same kids ultimately but someone else gets the hassle!
    - when is PD's meteorite arriving?
    The Roman Empire did not become great by holding meetings. It did so by killing everyone that opposed their point of view.

  12. #27
    Senior Member Kastor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith at 2M View Post
    As an example, why battle with a dinosaur over water activities when the local commercial centre will welcome you with open arms, pay you and not subject you to excesses of paperwork, rules & local restrictions? Ironically, due to the lack of volunteers many Scout Groups are now having to pay for their boating which is being run by the very leaders they have driven out! So you get to work with the same kids ultimately but someone else gets the hassle!
    I have that problem but from a different direction. My local Council run sailing/boating centre will take non-swimmers aged from 5. Under PoR the Beavers need to be able to swim 50m, no mean feat for a Beaver (scout that is!). District used to drop the swimming requirement to 25m for this site when they ran their activities there. I assume that it had been given a "Training Water" classification by someone but I could not/cannot get anyone at District or County level to verify this, all emails on the subject were ignored, conversations were never conclusive. I have now given up and the most of the Beavers and a lot of the Cubs miss out on an activity freely available to non-swimming 5 year olds. And we're supposed to be the adventure organisation?
    To get more kids we need more adults - are we getting the message yet?

  13. #28
    DESC - Richmond RichmondDESC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith at 2M View Post
    Sadly the evolutionary process of promoting the dinosaurs to executives, District Posts etc eventually backfires ......
    Not if you give them roles that are purely for show like Vice President - you can wheel them out in all their regalia for ceremonies where pomp is in order.


    Shhh - I can hear Knotso sobbing about his pet Diplodocus....
    You are only young once - but you can be immature forever!

  14. #29
    SL 1st High Lane Scouts JeanieJ's Avatar
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    I had an 'exchange of views' with an Akela from another group in our district at the Cub swimming gala on Saturday when I heard him gleefully exclaim that there weren't any girls taking part and wasn't that brilliant!! It's hard to believe that htese people are still out there - but I'm afraid they are.

  15. #30
    Proud Scout in Wales Skip Ian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeanieJ View Post
    I had an 'exchange of views' with an Akela from another group in our district at the Cub swimming gala on Saturday when I heard him gleefully exclaim that there weren't any girls taking part and wasn't that brilliant!! It's hard to believe that htese people are still out there - but I'm afraid they are.
    It's a little mad as at the last census I am told that 45% of Leaders are female, and the only girl left in our Scout Troop is so good that rather than lose her from Scouting as she can't make the 15 mile trip to explorers she is staying as SPL for six months till her parents have moved.
    "A life spent making mistakes is not only more honourable but more useful than a life spent doing nothing"

    George Bernard Shaw
    [1856-1950]

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