View Poll Results: Should Athiests Be Allowed to Be Leaders?

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  • Yes

    43 66.15%
  • No

    19 29.23%
  • Don't Know

    3 4.62%
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Thread: Should Athiests Be Allowed to Be Leaders?

  1. #16
    Senior Member Biscit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biscit View Post
    We should not be afraid to re-examine our values, or interpret someone questioning our values as attacking them. If we re-examine our values and find no change is necessary, it is not a wasted effort as our values will be all the stronger for it.
    Not, by the way, meant as a contribution to the whole meta debate on how we should be allowed to debate here, more a comment on how wider Scouting should deal with questions such as these.

  2. #17
    aka "Old Battle Axe" tomahawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushfella View Post
    Just for the record, and as I said in my response that was deleted. I am NOT an atheist. I have a belief, I have faith, but I do not hold with organised religion.

    See, now this is where it gets difficult to discuss without looking at specifics. You have made presumptions. I guess you didn't see my response which answered all these questions, I thought civilly and with due respect to ALL other faiths. But apparently it is okay for some do denigrate another man's faith, but not to have one's own questioned, by some here. Anyway. I said I wasn't going to get involved again, and I'm out of this one.

    Ewan Scott
    Ewan,

    You have my sincere, heartfelt and unreserved apology.

  3. #18
    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Apologies Not Required

    There is no need for any apology, when religion is discussed people can feel that their beliefs are under attack. It is only natural to get fired up and misread or misinterpret. Or indeed to say or write something that one might have put better.

    Honestly, no apology required.

    Ewan Scott

  4. #19
    Member Knotso's Avatar
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    I misread the poll as "Should Athletes be allowed to become Leaders"? Sorry.

    I think perhaps they should, but Leaders wishing to become athletes could come across some hurdles.

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  5. #20
    is it senior or very old TRH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knotso View Post
    I misread the poll as "Should Athletes be allowed to become Leaders"? Sorry.

    I think perhaps they should, but Leaders wishing to become athletes could come across some hurdles.

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    A becon of light and hope in the gloom!!!

  6. #21
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    I vote yes - and the promise and religous policy should be altered to reflect this.

  7. #22
    ESL and DESC ianw's Avatar
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    Putting on my size 9's for a moment...

    As far as I can tell, most major religions have similar values to Scouting (or the other way round, whatever). So why bring religion into it when by observing the scout laws, you're lining up with most faiths anyway?

    I have faith in scouting. The worst consequence of this debate, and the original prompting of it, is if it sets leader against leader, and splits scouting into factions.
    Ian Wilkins
    Farnham District Explorer Scout Commissioner

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  8. #23
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    A Scout is to be trusted.
    A Scout is loyal.
    A Scout is friendly and considerate.
    A Scout belongs to the worldwide family of Scouts.
    A Scout has courage in all difficulties.
    A Scout makes good use of time and is careful of possessions and property.
    A Scout has self-respect and respect for others.

    I believe that anyone who can uphold the Scout Law should be allowed to become a Leader. Scouting, we keep being told, is a movement, not an organisation, so let's move forward and review the policy on religion.

  9. #24
    BSL (Squirrel) Mrs Chug's Avatar
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    Now this is where everyone is going to say that I should not have offered my services, to help out my beaver group.

    Before I did I sat down and spoke to Chug, my personal lines are, I don't know if their is a god, but I do believe that their is something, I'm not sure what, but that their is something.

    I do attend church parades, to set a god example to my beavers and I do listen to what is said in church, I will at no time question any ones beliefs.

    I will try to answer any of my beavers questions, the best I can and I will help them the best that I can.

    Now after speaking to Chug on this I have found the bravery to post this, because by reading some of the posts, I should not have offered my services.


    Now would some of you like to tell me that I am wrong for doing this???

  10. #25
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    No, I wouldn't, because as I said above, anyone who upholds the Scout Law, I believe, is capable of becoming a Leader. My husband is much in the same situation as you Mrs Chug, and he is a fantastic Leader.

  11. #26
    BSL (Squirrel) Mrs Chug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Testarossa View Post
    No, I wouldn't, because as I said above, anyone who upholds the Scout Law, I believe, is capable of becoming a Leader. My husband is much in the same situation as you Mrs Chug, and he is a fantastic Leader.
    Maybe thats why we haven't got people coming into scouts, because of this they think that they have to believe in god.

  12. #27
    Moderator jshirra's Avatar
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    Mrs Chug, you sound the same as me! You are not an Aethiest, but Agnostic which is recognised by TSA

  13. #28
    BSL (Squirrel) Mrs Chug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jshirra View Post
    Mrs Chug, you sound the same as me! You are not an Aethiest, but Agnostic which is recognised by TSA
    Thats what Chug keeps calling me, but I couldn't remember it. I'm glad I'm not alone.

  14. #29
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    Before I begin, this is not a personal attack, but a question of our current policy, and what I think is something of an anomaly.

    We all acknowledge that agnostics are allowed to be leaders, but if the policy is

    All Members of the Movement are encouraged to:

    • make every effort to progress in the understanding and observance of the Promise to do their best to do their duty to God;
    • belong to some religious body;
    • carry into daily practice what they profess.
    how do agnostics fit this policy?

  15. #30
    Senior Member Mang's Avatar
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    Just supposing the SA wanted to change the promise, who would decide it's wording? Indeed, who made the changes to the original ten scout laws?

    When I invested Beavers I personally used to cringe when asking six year olds to 'Love God'.
    The Outdoor Traditionalist (a largely bushcraft blog). Have a look at this how to page for things to try.
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