View Poll Results: Should Athiests Be Allowed to Be Leaders?

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  • Yes

    43 66.15%
  • No

    19 29.23%
  • Don't Know

    3 4.62%
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Thread: Should Athiests Be Allowed to Be Leaders?

  1. #46
    GSL & AESL shiftypete's Avatar
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    I don't think an AA form should be returned due to the religion part not being filled in It should just mean they ask you about this at your appointments committee interview

    Peter Andrews AESL of Headingley Pirates ESU, Group Scout Leader & Webmaster of Falkoner Scout Group
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  2. #47
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    At the end of every show, the comedian Dave Allen used to say, "Goodnight and may your God go with you". It was a clever phrase which allowed for agnosticism, certainly, if not for atheism.

    I personally think that Atheists on the whole should not be leaders but I do think that anyone who can make the promise inserting the word MY in front of the word GOD should indeed be allowed to be a leader. It is then up to your own personal beliefs and conscience who or what YOUR God is.
    Last edited by Dramatist; 09-02-2008 at 12:16 PM. Reason: Needed a final sentence.

  3. #48
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    I always find discussing religion in any context difficult because people often seem to get offended, but when reading this thread a question or two came to mind:

    As an intelligent adult, does not having a religious belief of your own stop you delivering a balanced and complete program to the children in your care?

    Could it perhaps not be said that by having no religous bias of your own that you could more easily cover a number of faiths within your programe to a fair and equally degree of coverage?

    If all atheist were disallowed from leadership how many groups would be able to fully operate? would this be of detriment to the movement and more importnantly the members?

    As an inclusive movement, is disallowing atheist as discriminatory as not allowing someone on grounds of their religion?

    Also on a side point, i have held a various warrants over the last 7-8 years and i don't recall ever having stated or being questioned over my relisious beliefs at all and i imagine it would have stuck in my mind as i wouldn't have been entirely sure how to answer.

  4. #49
    Account Closed Raksha's Avatar
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    So at the risk of stirring all this up again, what does everyone class as
    doing their duty to God?
    To my mind it is trying to live life as a decent human bean, with respect for others as well as myself, to try to help others as best I can.
    Last edited by Raksha; 09-02-2008 at 05:43 PM. Reason: thought about it a bit more

  5. #50
    BSL (Squirrel) Mrs Chug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninthskip View Post
    So at the risk of stirring all this up again, what does everyone class as
    doing their duty to God?
    To my mind it is trying to live life as a decent human bean, with respect for others as well as myself, to try to help others as best I can.
    Snap.

  6. #51
    Escouts Team MikeJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninthskip View Post
    So at the risk of stirring all this up again, what does everyone class as
    doing their duty to God?
    To my mind it is trying to live life as a decent human bean, with respect for others as well as myself, to try to help others as best I can.

    Thats my view too
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  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninthskip View Post
    So at the risk of stirring all this up again, what does everyone class as
    doing their duty to God?
    To my mind it is trying to live life as a decent human bean, with respect for others as well as myself, to try to help others as best I can.
    Yup, agreed.

  8. #53
    BSL (Squirrel) Mrs Chug's Avatar
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    How can I put this as I've beeen thinking about it all day on how to word this so I'll be blunt.

    Would you still put your young people in my care if you knew that I had my ears pierced 3 times, my belly button done once and 8 tattoos.

    Would that worry you, so why does what beleive in faith wise, have so much attached to it.

    Surley what kind of person I am and what I see to be wrong and wright, have a far greater implication on how I deal with the young people,in my care.
    Last edited by Mrs Chug; 09-02-2008 at 11:16 PM.

  9. #54
    Assistant Beaver Leader Keith's Avatar
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    Mrs Chug: I for one wouln't mind one bit if you had piercings and tattoos. I think some parents might worry if they did not approve of a leaders religious beliefs for being different to theirs.

    Im a Christian, but I only ever go to Church for church parade.
    Keith "Hawkeye"
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  10. #55
    BSL (Squirrel) Mrs Chug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith View Post
    Mrs Chug: I for one wouln't mind one bit if you had piercings and tattoos. I think some parents might worry if they did not approve of a leaders religious beliefs for being different to theirs.

    Im a Christian, but I only ever go to Church for church parade.
    Thanks Keith, all that I wrote above is true, I do have my ears piecered 3 times and my belly button done, I've tought about getting my nose done(but chug would do his nut, he did when he found out I'd done my belly button), so I have my belly done and I have 8 tatts, I just keep them covered in the presence of the children.

    I put down that I'm c of e, I have been christened but on the loss of my grandparents and on close friends that were all younger than me I questioned this belief, not on on those but on also on under going a misscarrage at 3 months with Chugs first child(now you now why I question). I questrion my faith, I know that their is someting, it made chugs faith stronger, it made me question mine. Now you know why.

    I only attend Church parade as well Keith.

  11. #56
    Escouts Founder Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs Chug View Post

    Would that worry you, so why does what beleive in faith wise, have so much attached to it.

    Surley what kind of person I am and what I see to be wrong and wright, have a far greater implication on how I deal with the young people,in my care.
    To be brutally blunt, it doesnt. The simple fact that this is suddenly a 'hot topic' is because it has came up in the media. Its not something I really discuss.

    Whenever I visit a Cub Pack or a Scout Troop, I am far more interested in the young people are having a good time, and the leaders are happy, rather than finding out if the leaders still have a faith, of some description, or have decided to be an atheist.

    To me we have processes for all that kind of thing, and frankly if we end with the odd Atheist leader, but they follow the programme, should we care?

    I'm sure we all could come up with some leaders, who whilst they may practise their religion, don't do a balanced programme, because they are busy, can't be bothered or lazy!! Sorry, I should really say, need some more support!

    Quandry no 1: The Scout Troop is about to close, unless a leader is found. Someone offers to be a leader, but they are probably an atheist, what would you do??????????

    Should remind people that these are my views

  12. #57
    aka "Old Battle Axe" tomahawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Quandry no 1: The Scout Troop is about to close, unless a leader is found. Someone offers to be a leader, but they are probably an atheist, what would you do?????????
    Quandry 2 (hypothetical of course)
    Said leader does a fab job, brilliant leader etc. But because of his lack of belief and indeed his contempt for the fairytale of faith, he doesnt feel he is able to fulfil the spiritual "brief" of the scouting movement and feels he shouldnt have to. Therefore he does not have a balanced programme. What do you do...???

  13. #58
    Senior Member wolfie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomahawk View Post
    Quandry 2 (hypothetical of course)
    Said leader does a fab job, brilliant leader etc. But because of his lack of belief and indeed his contempt for the fairytale of faith, he doesnt feel he is able to fulfil the spiritual "brief" of the scouting movement and feels he shouldnt have to. Therefore he does not have a balanced programme. What do you do...???
    But...by signing up as a leader he signed up the balanced programme, so surely the GSL / District would pick this up and review warrant accordingly????

    Just because the leader doesn't surely he could use the assistant leaders etc to deliver that bit, so be present and support but let them plan and deliver????
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  14. #59
    Assistant Beaver Leader Keith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Quandry no 1: The Scout Troop is about to close, unless a leader is found. Someone offers to be a leader, but they are probably an atheist, what would you do??????????
    To me it wouldn't make much difference - being an atheist doesn't make them a bad person or a bad leader.

    Quote Originally Posted by tomahawk View Post
    Quandry 2 (hypothetical of course)
    Said leader does a fab job, brilliant leader etc. But because of his lack of belief and indeed his contempt for the fairytale of faith, he doesnt feel he is able to fulfil the spiritual "brief" of the scouting movement and feels he shouldnt have to. Therefore he does not have a balanced programme. What do you do...???
    I would call on other adults in scouting who are willing to come in when needed to do the spiritual side, maybe with input from a Vicar, Immam (sp?), etc. With our beavers, one of the weeks our theme was "And to Love God" so we arranged a trip into church with the vicar.
    Keith "Hawkeye"
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  15. #60
    Senior Member Biscit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GordyC View Post
    It appears to me that most of the reasons supplied for Atheists not becoming leaders is simply that they don't "fit the criteria" in relation to one specific area of a policy.

    I believe that if any individual is suitable in all other aspects for becoming a leader then that individual should get all the support available. If he or she is not comfortable with the religion aspect of the movement then others should be on hand to cover this role.
    Atheists are, under the current policy, perfectly acceptable as helpers and instructors. And some helpers and instructors in groups I know do as much if not more than the leaders. Now this thread got me thinking, was it the percieved paperwork and onerous commitemnt to training that keeps them helpers or something else.

    And if they are acceptable doing what they do without a uniform and necker, why the hurdle for the last bit...

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