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Thread: Child Protection

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    Child Protection

    Hi

    The church that my scout troop is attached is making all leaders redo their child protection training. I have only recently completed a far more in depth c.p course with my previous employer this was verified by the Department of Education.

    The question i am asking is

    Do i need to do this training if the scout association is happy with my previous training undertaken elsewhere.

    Surely this is a waste of my time as i am not involved with the church activities such as sunday school etc. The scout association has their own policies and procedures to follow and as a leader in this organisation i should be following thiers not the churches

    Gary

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    Account Closed Raksha's Avatar
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    I know what I think, but I dont know if I am correct. I would say that this is a question for the Scout Information Centre.
    I think that it is indeed a waste of time/resources SO LONG as all the Leaders have taken the child protection training.
    It surely depends if the Group is a closed one or not? As I say, I don't know.

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    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    There was a move, as a result of a Scout conference a couple of years back, to try and make everyone redo CP training every three years. We were told it was a rule direct from HQ.

    I called and asked. It wasn't, but it is something that might happen. What a waste of time and resources if it does. It would be pandering to paranoia.
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



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    Senior Member Kastor's Avatar
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    I think your question should be directed more to the Church as they are the ones who say you should do it. Even if the Info Center says no you don't its the Church you will have to convince.
    To get more kids we need more adults - are we getting the message yet?

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    Keith at 2M Keith at 2M's Avatar
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    We faced the same problem a couple of years ago. Once I'd explained the training TSA provided the church were quite happy with both that and our CRB process, as at one stage they'd wanted all new leaders to complete a CRB for the church as well as the scout group.

    From a PR point of view however it might be worth going to their training - you'd raise the Group's profile among the church community and show them you take CP seriously, even if the course is a waste of time. To be honest, in today's climate we need to be seen to be taking CP issues very seriously, so personally I'd take a deep breath and go along with what they're asking.
    The Roman Empire did not become great by holding meetings. It did so by killing everyone that opposed their point of view.

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    GSL & AESL shiftypete's Avatar
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    We had severe problems a while back with the Church that sponsors our Group over child protection, they refused to accept TSA Child protection policies and training were equivalent to the Churches and wanted all Leaders to do separate CRBs for the Church and undergo interviews with the Church as well as Scout appointment committees. Fortunately this was quickly resolved thanks to a change in minister to one with some common sense and the Church is now happy that Scout policies are more than equivalent of the Churches, although they do get notified of all new Leaders and when a Scouting CRB comes back clear.

    Basically in your case I'd take it up with the Church, make them aware of the rigorous CP structure in Scouting and the training you have already done and see if they are happy with that.

    Peter Andrews ESL of Headingley Pirates ESU, Group Scout Leader & Webmaster of Falkoner Scout Group
    www.falkonerscouts.org.uk

    Previous Scouting Roles
    2003 - 2013 ABSL
    2017-2018 AGSL

    Wike, North Leeds District Campsite - www.wikecampsite.org.uk
    www.leeds-solar.co.uk
    Please note all views expressed are my own and not those of any organisation I'm associated with

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    Senior Member DonTregartha's Avatar
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    CRB is a check on your suitability to have access to children and is taken by an authorised body for their purposes not yours. You are notified as to the result but no one else. A CRB isn't your property, neither I believe, is it a license to be with kids.

    I had to complete a CRB check as a school governor within weeks of a SA CRB check. This was because our school was opening an after school club. I wasn't involved with the running of the club, I just participated in the management as a member of the governing body. I never visited or went in.

    The dfes insisted that we all were checked by them, so we all did, no sweat.

    BTW I had a deeply unsuitable candidate volunteer for a Scout Leader post turn up at the hut clutching a 'Clear' CRB disclosure document. We didn't take him on as we had misgivings about him- call it intuition.

    Some months later, following compulsory CRB checks at our local school, he left his job as a school cleaner. This may have been coincidence but due to the confidentiality of the system you can't find out.


    Don Tregartha
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    1st Wing Scouts

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    Our church at one point wanted all groups working with children (hiring their premises) to complete CRB's, etc. Once our GSL confirmed the SA procedure & training, the church accepted that the Scout Leaders did not need to complete these for church purposes. The church were not aware of the thorough checks which are put in place.

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    In Northern Ireland we have recent just changed how we do CRB - this is done by a company called Access NI i am in the process of being checked with them for both university and a new job that i am starting in.

    My main problem is that our GSL is also the Minister so i would need hard evidence to present to him to make him change his mind

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    The Daddy
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    A leader in my old group was made to do his first aid training certificate along with the rest of us. This leader's job was First Response Emergency Paramedic, he knew more than the bloke taking the course. Another waste of money.

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    This might be the church covering their backsides in the unlikely event that something was to happen in the future.

    Not only would they have TSA's Child Protection Training to fall back on, but also their own training. A bit of belt and braces possibly, but yes a waste of time which should be able to be resolved through communication.

    However, as far as I'm aware there is a fault in the current CRB system.

    If you complete the form with the result being you are suitable one day, then the next day something occurs which makes you unsuitable, TSA are not notified automatically. The CRB is not reviewed or renewed as far as I am aware.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeafyLion View Post
    A leader in my old group was made to do his first aid training certificate along with the rest of us. This leader's job was First Response Emergency Paramedic, he knew more than the bloke taking the course. Another waste of money.
    If he was a qualified and in the medical trade he would have been exempt from doing First Response see the factsheet on Scoutbase.
    I am not in the medical trade, but I am exempt due to doing first aid refresher courses every year
    Dave Stockford
    Holy Trinity Cubs - Yeovil District
    Southern Stars SASU

  13. #13
    SL 1st High Lane Scouts JeanieJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stukley cubs View Post
    If he was a qualified and in the medical trade he would have been exempt from doing First Response see the factsheet on Scoutbase.
    We have an ASL who is a hospital doctor (he's an Oncologist). If you have cancer, he's your man - but he says he doesn't know a whole lot about up to date 1st Aid - he bills himself as a 3rd Aider!

    Now this may be modesty (he's worked at A&E at Manchester Royal patching up gangland shootings before he specialised in Oncology)

    and it may be not wanting a busman's holiday at Scouts...

    It may also be a reluctance to accept liability that could affect his career....

    And I agree, it's a bit silly asking first response paramedics to go on Scout first aid courses.

    But is a blanket exemption for anyone medical reasonable, I wonder? What does everyone think?

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    Moderator jshirra's Avatar
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    i thought it was if you had a first aid qualification equal or above First Response that you where exempt. Doctors generally aren't 'First Aid' trained (maybe A&E would qualify - don't know :P), but paramedics are very much first response / First Aid people!!

    'Anyone Medical' could include the receptionist wouldn't want to assume she/he is medically trained :P

  15. #15
    nele
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    As a trained nurse I have to say that first aid is somewhat different to working in a hospital situation with everything at hand. I learnt a lot more about first aid in guiding and scouting then I did through my nurse training. Although Ive probably had to reanimate more people then your average scouter (I hope) and it does give you a head start in spotting symptoms of say strokes or heart problems etc.
    I now work as a community nurse, so I'm much more likely to have to do first aid type things, like patch up cuts and grazes, sort people out who've fallen etc.

    So it depends really on what your job is, people who work as paramedics shouldn't need to do the first response training. Others have to prove they are up to speed on first aid/reanimation etc The new factsheet made this more plain then the old one, which gave a more blanket exemption. I would hope that most healthcare professionals would be aware of the gaps in their knowledge and be willing to take the course or at least get up to speed on the things they need to know. It's possible to do a competence test (I think thats the correct name) with the Red Cross without doing a course and gain the qualification (if you pass).

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