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Thread: The Great Uniform Debate......

  1. #16
    ASM (British Boy Scouts) tdjno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dramatist View Post
    .....And, do you know, I would happily have the whole lot back tomorrow, shorts, hat, stave and all if I could! Perhaps I am secretly a 'closet' B-P Scout!
    I agree with that, this is the very reason I left the SA, lack of tradition.

    Quote Originally Posted by timtheswim View Post
    No, just trying to be practical and also change something that was affecting recruitment and retention.

    The uniform part of the tradition had changed for most of the movement years before.
    I find that if the programme is interesting enough they will wear the traditional uniform especially at wolf cub age. I don't see why the uniform should change to get people to join. I would never lower my standards to get people to join, I would rather stop all together (BTW I am 25 and not somebody who remembers pre-APR scouting).

    Just like to add this is just my opinion and I am happy where I am and do remember the 4th scout law. If this works for you then please carry on
    Last edited by MikeJ; 28-11-2008 at 05:16 PM.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dramatist View Post
    I think that we should stop trying to apologise for our uniform and design something that is striking and practical as well. We choose to be Scouts and that includes wearing a uniform with all that that implies so why not have the uniform that would work for us ....[/COLOR]
    thanks for a wonderful potted history of the changes in uniform over the years....

    Quote Originally Posted by tdjno View Post
    I agree with that, this is the very reason I left the SA, lack of tradition.
    Was it just the lack of uniform or other things too though?

    Quote Originally Posted by tdjno View Post
    I don't see why the uniform should change to get people to join. I would never lower my standards to get people to join, I would rather stop all together......
    Different doesn't necessarily have to mean lower standards - just different! I suppose its all about having a choice and people of either camp (pardon the pun) ie more formal or those who prefer something a bit more relaxed being tolerant of each others' choices. Some new people won't mind the more traditional uniform but I suspect many others will prefer something more comfortable. Either way the movement can't risk alienating either group. I'm rambling on here again sorry - in one word then "choice"!
    Ruth

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    ASL and YLUL wealdbrook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiftypete View Post
    Personally I think that is what we have got currently, the trousers are eminently practical to the point kids actually wear them to do activities in! The shirt and necker are distinctive, people see them and instantly know we are Scouts.
    I buy Regatta trousers which are all but identical and both my son and I wear them quite a lot of the time. They seem to wear well and don't look too scruffy too soon!
    John Alexander,
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  4. #19
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    I wear my Explorer activity shirt (polo shirt) and necker, and that's all I have by way of uniform. Explanation being that when I started Explorers, our leader had bought a job lot of the activity shirts for us to buy off her, so we all looked the same in them and were more comfortable. However as time has gone on, the original crowd who all had activity shirts have all but left, and the newer ones have bought the proper shirts so they don't look odd on county events! Which has left me looking very odd on county events as the only explorer in an activity shirt - but as I turn 18 in April it doesn't seem worth the money to buy a proper Explorer shirt now. All the female leaders I know have the activity shirts, its just not questioned, so if I become a leader after I hit 18 I'll probably buy another one in the adult colour We don't tend to do badges, so I'm not losing out too much there either.

    Scout trousers? Scout shoes?! (not heard that one before!) Nope don't have any of that, jeans +trainers all the way i'm afraid *guilty look* we're very casual about uniform, which suits us just fine


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  5. #20
    Been around a long time Dave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiftypete View Post
    Personally I think that is what we have got currently, the trousers are eminently practical to the point kids actually wear them to do activities in! The shirt and necker are distinctive, people see them and instantly know we are Scouts.
    I agree with Shifty, The uniform now is what I think is the best so far. Whatever the SA do regarding uniform it will never please everyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by shiftypete View Post
    The shirt and necker are distinctive, people see them and instantly know we are Scouts.
    Exactly
    all in all it is just another brick in the wall

  6. #21
    ASM (British Boy Scouts) tdjno's Avatar
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    I’m saddened that you all see it this way; compromising uniform to try and be trendy. The traditional uniform is really not old fashioned it was developed in a time of stiff collars and breaches and otherwise uncomfortable clothes. The only people to wear shorts when B-P introduced the uniform initially were solders in hot climates!
    For me the SA now uniform doesn’t look at all special and looks too casual for church parades but too restrictive for activities.
    Incidentally there are still many independent prep schools that still wear shorts and other ‘old fashioned’ uniform, and I don’t believe that they suffer from recruitment problems. Make something good enough and the uniform really will not matter.
    Along the same lines should blue-coat schools change their uniform too? Or maybe schools like Eton? It is part of their ethos as is traditional scout uniform to Scouting.
    Last edited by tdjno; 29-11-2008 at 02:58 PM.

  7. #22
    Tim
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    What we have now come down to is personal preference, you have your views and I and others have different ones. That is what life and Scouting are all about, no one is right and no one is wrong. I think you and I will just have to agree to differ as long as the YPs don't lose out.
    Tim Lloyd.ASL
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  8. #23
    ESL - Young Leaders
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdjno View Post
    I’m saddened that you all see it this way; compromising uniform to try and be trendy.
    Who said anything about changing for the sake of being trendy? I thought the point I and others were making was that we would like a more functional and comfortable uniform on a weekly basis whilst retaining smart for ceremonies, parades etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by tdjno View Post
    Incidentally there are still many independent prep schools that still wear shorts and other ‘old fashioned’ uniform, and I don’t believe that they suffer from recruitment problems. Make something good enough and the uniform really will not matter.
    Can't really compare a voluntary movement such as Scouting with a private organisation. Private you pays your money, you make your choice, like it or lump it. Scouting does suffer from recruitment problems.

    Really I'm not disagreeing that uniform is important just that it is part of Scouting and not the whole and definitely not how we are defined.

    Quote Originally Posted by timtheswim View Post
    What we have now come down to is personal preference, you have your views and I and others have different ones. That is what life and Scouting are all about, no one is right and no one is wrong. I think you and I will just have to agree to differ as long as the YPs don't lose out.
    You're absolutely right Tim. Best agree to disagree and wish those with different views all the best in the true spirit of Scouting

    PS Isn't it strange that its only adults discussing this when its a YPs movement? I would be really interested in a YPs' only thread where they can express their views without fear of being criticised.
    Last edited by Gadgette; 29-11-2008 at 04:30 PM.
    Ruth

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  9. #24
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    As far as the Cub uniform goes, I'd leave it as it is now.

    Back in the day, the Cub Cap and Garters were absolutely horrible. You'd walk down rundown, coucil estate, Fountain Road in those in your shorts in the snow in December and you learned to run very fast from the hoodlums waiting to smash your face in. Garter tabs were always getting lost and the cap was terrible to keep clean. Countless caps went in the washing machine never to be seen again, though I don't like the baseball cap either.

    Those shorts will not be making a come back in my group, and neither will the garter tabs.

  10. #25
    ASM (British Boy Scouts) tdjno's Avatar
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    We as I say, we still have the 1959 uniform and programme and we have no problem with recruitment, admittedly most of our boys and girls attend public schools. It is just a shame we had to leave the SA to do so.

  11. #26
    Senior Member Mad dog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdjno View Post
    When BP designed the uniform, it was not meant to be fashion but extremely practical.
    The shorts are surely not practical in the Winter months when there's snow on the ground? You lot must be freezing, arn't you?
    Catch you all later,

    David


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    Aberdeen SSAGO (An Honorary Member now - yikes!)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dramatist View Post
    Equally, Scouting is a uniformed movement and there are many, myself included, who would probably give up altogether if the uniform was scrapped and we became no different from any other youth club!
    I think if the uniform was the only thing that makes us different from any other youth club, I would leave. Fortunately I don't think it is. Judge Scouting by what we do, not what costume we dress up in.

  13. #28
    ASM (British Boy Scouts) tdjno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mad dog View Post
    The shorts are surely not practical in the Winter months when there's snow on the ground? You lot must be freezing, arn't you?
    No, we have long socks too it's only the knees that are uncovered and you get used to that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beth View Post
    I wear my Explorer activity shirt (polo shirt) and necker, and that's all I have by way of uniform.

    Scout trousers? Scout shoes?! (not heard that one before!) Nope don't have any of that, jeans +trainers all the way i'm afraid *guilty look* we're very casual about uniform, which suits us just fine
    Sounds like my kind of unifrom!

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    Quote Originally Posted by tdjno View Post
    We as I say, we still have the 1959 uniform and programme and we have no problem with recruitment, admittedly most of our boys and girls attend public schools. It is just a shame we had to leave the SA to do so.
    I'd come from a council estate and most of our kids only owed one pair of shoes, admittedly most of our boys had never set foot in a Public school. You'd get ten shades of Sinatra kicked out of you in most towns and cities (and especially here) if you wore grey shorts and knee length socks.

    My pack have the same principles and the same Scouting values. Outwardly we've changed, inwardly we've always been the same.

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