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Thread: The Great Uniform Debate......

  1. #31
    Diversity Ambassador Lynn-Cubs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viking View Post
    Sounds like my kind of unifrom!
    So many children wear trainers all the time, even to school now. So it's the logical choice for Scouts too.

    Lack of proper shoes generally is a bigger concern in my mind, trainers are no good for their feet. Fine for games, not for everyday. Not a scouting issue though, I'd prefer to see proper shoes but as long as they come along and enjoy Scouts then that's as much as we can ask.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn-Cubs View Post
    So many children wear trainers all the time, even to school now. So it's the logical choice for Scouts too.

    Lack of proper shoes generally is a bigger concern in my mind, trainers are no good for their feet. Fine for games, not for everyday. Not a scouting issue though, I'd prefer to see proper shoes but as long as they come along and enjoy Scouts then that's as much as we can ask.
    Trainers are bad for your feet? Oh dear, I'm one of those that wears them pretty much all the time - i'm sixth form so no uniform for school any more. Only times I don't are hiking - boots, and special occasions - on which I usually wear dolly shoes which I would have thought are worse for your feet as there's a lot less support in them. (google image 'silver dolly shoes' first pic is the kind of shoe I mean - couldn't think of a better way to describe them)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gadgette View Post
    PS Isn't it strange that its only adults discussing this when its a YPs movement? I would be really interested in a YPs' only thread where they can express their views without fear of being criticised.
    Hey I'm an Explorer not an adult! I think its cool having the conversation with adults and YP as we can all get an idea of what's running through each others heads I think uniform serves its purpose as long as it shows clearly the organisation you belong to, which it does with the whole set of shirt, necker, trousers, shoes or with shirt, necker, jeans, trainers. Either way it shows who we are and that we're proud of it Scout and Proud hoodies do the trick too, I wear mine all the time round sixth form and have had hardly any nasty comments, its great And I wouldn't care if there were - my answer is plainly written on the back AND PROUD


    DUSAGG member (Durham's SSAGO)
    SCOUT and PROUD

  3. #33
    ESL - Young Leaders
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beth View Post
    Hey I'm an Explorer not an adult! I think its cool having the conversation with adults and YP as we can all get an idea of what's running through each others heads I think uniform serves its purpose as long as it shows clearly the organisation you belong to, which it does with the whole set of shirt, necker, trousers, shoes or with shirt, necker, jeans, trainers. Either way it shows who we are and that we're proud of it Scout and Proud hoodies do the trick too, I wear mine all the time round sixth form and have had hardly any nasty comments, its great And I wouldn't care if there were - my answer is plainly written on the back AND PROUD
    Way to go Beth - I should have said "mainly" adults discussing it! Lets have more like you expressing an opinion about uniform. Like I say I am genuinely interested in knowing what YPs views are on this - might even have a debate with the Scouts on the subject!
    Ruth

    Lovin' my gadgets!

  4. #34
    Senior Member Spider's Avatar
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    Oh dear.

    My version of uniform is shirt, usually unbuttoned, or group polo shirt worn with my scarf. I always wear jeans, don't own a pair of the official trousers and until they change the style I never will.

    I do button up my shirt for parades though.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Shaun's Avatar
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    Some interesting comments and views on here.

    As I understand it the original uniform as stated by BP, was meant to be practical for the youth and leaders of the day, based on what was available in the textile world and suited the culture.

    Back then most men wore a hat of some description. Soldiers wore shorts in hot climates, but that was where BP spent an awful lot of his career, so he would have been influenced, in fact the early scout uniform has a definate colonial military slant to it.

    I like the lemon squeezer (otherwise known as a Campaign Hat) and I bought one of the replica's last year, but then I don't like to wear a hood to keep the rain of my head.

    Schoolboys wore a cap, and the cub cap was a similar design to that.

    Move forward to today.

    In textiles we now have Goretex, rip resitant material, fleece and many others, we no longer need to wear shorts so that should we fall only skin, which can grow back, is damged

    We have afforadable clothing so can afford approach shoes, hiking boots, go faster trainers that we can pump up and society no longer routinely wears hats.

    The SA Scout uniform has transitioned also.

    Gone has the wool jumper, replaced by a quicker drying, less itchy sweatshirt, gone is the cap, replaced by an optional baseball cap, one less thing to lose.

    The shirt is similar, but doesn't fit everysingle build of scout, but then it never did and never will.

    The trousers have changed the colour is more practical for not showing the dirt, but not as practcal for when you are in a hide and scouting out the other patrols - how many of us still do that?

    The BPSA has retained some of the uniform items, but I presume you have discarded the less practical items.... do you still carry/wear a poncho or have you moved to new fangled Goretex waterproofs?

    What has remained though is the necker and the badge, the two things we share worldwide with ALL of our fellow Scouts and these two items, the original uniform, are the most important.
    Shaun

    SL
    Hanging Heaton Scout Group

  6. #36
    ASM (British Boy Scouts) tdjno's Avatar
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    I should add that I am not B-PSA anymore but BBS

    Okay so society may be dumbing down and becoming less and less smart, but does it mean that Scouting has to? I think there should still be a choice. After all, as I said before many independent schools still have shorts and caps; does that not could for something?
    Last edited by David; 01-12-2008 at 04:40 PM. Reason: merge

  7. #37
    Moderator David's Avatar
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    I dont see it as dumming down. The trousers are more resillient than the old ones. And so they will look better for longer. I think that its common sense.

    As for independent schools, imho that doesnt count for anything. Thats who they are and we are who we are.

    I for one wouldnt like it if everyone would be made to wear suits and stuff to look neat. Me being smart is a wearing a shirt, jeans and trainers. I dont consider myself dumbed down.

    Saying that how does the way that you dress influence your "smartness"?

  8. #38
    Senior Member Ashbourne_Akela's Avatar
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    I don't see it as dumbing down and having seen all my YP on Parade, they are still as smart as ever.

    I get the tradition of the uniform, I do, and I would fight tooth and nail to keep it in some form if they decided to go down the Guide route of twenty different mix 'n' match combinations. However......... Scouting is what you deliver on a daily/weekly/monthly/yearly basis. It is the programme you create, the activities you do, the experiences you provide a special group of kids who believe in the same thing and want to have the chance to do all those things. A kid will only take pride in their uniform if they want to, regardless of what the uniform is. So you need to be doing enough active and interesting stuff to make that uniform worthwhile to put on, whether it's shorts and garters or trousers and baseball caps.

    And tdjno, there is a choice. They can join Scouts, B-PSA, BBS or a youth club. You have obviously made your choice, I have made mine. To be honest though, the uniform has very little to do with it, it's all about the programme.
    GSL 1st Mayfield Scout Group
    And general dogsbody

    Ecamp 2008/2009

  9. #39
    aka "Old Battle Axe" tomahawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Hunter View Post
    Scout hoodies are fantastic and I think these are the way forward, as well as neckers, for improving the image of Scouting to the general public.
    I agree. Might also change peoples perception of "Yoof" if they see decent youngsters in hoodies.

    (Although I do have to share this...I have a friend whose daughter is autistic. Having seen a group of hoodies in town, she whispered to her mum...

    "Look...Master Criminals!" )
    Tomahawk

    I don't do glitter.

  10. #40
    ASM (British Boy Scouts) tdjno's Avatar
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    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Hunter View Post
    Shirt and necker does the job!

    The only time I think we should wear full uniform (shirt, necker, trousers, black shoes) is St George’s Day parade.

    In my opinion the shirt is used within the troop and by other Scouts to recognise an individual’s achievements and the necker symbolises the Scout Association.

    Scout hoodies are fantastic and I think these are the way forward, as well as neckers, for improving the image of Scouting to the general public.
    Full uniform for us is hat, shirt, scarf, shorts, scout-belt, long socks, garters and shoes and we wear it all the time (except when in camp uniform). I don't think hoodies will catch on here.

  11. #41
    GSL & AESL shiftypete's Avatar
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    What does camp uniform consist of? Just interested as we wear old clothes in camp as they end up filthy and keep Uniform for trips out of camp.

    Peter Andrews AESL of Headingley Pirates ESU, Group Scout Leader & Webmaster of Falkoner Scout Group
    www.falkonerscouts.org.uk

    Previous Scouting Roles
    2003 - 2013 ABSL
    2017-2018 AGSL

    Wike, North Leeds District Campsite - www.wikecampsite.org.uk
    www.leeds-solar.co.uk
    Please note all views expressed are my own and not those of any organisation I'm associated with

  12. #42
    Escouts Team MikeJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdjno View Post
    I should add that I am not B-PSA anymore but BBS
    What's BBS?
    Mike Jury
    Escouts Team
    Ecamp 2009
    Radio Amateur (M0MFF)

  13. #43
    ASM (British Boy Scouts) tdjno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeJ View Post
    What's BBS?
    search for BBS in: http://www.netpages.free-online.co.uk/sha/isa.htm

    Quote Originally Posted by shiftypete View Post
    What does camp uniform consist of? Just interested as we wear old clothes in camp as they end up filthy and keep Uniform for trips out of camp.
    Camp t-shirt and camp shorts. B-P did perscribe uniform from the knee up.
    Last edited by tdjno; 01-12-2008 at 11:36 PM.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiftypete View Post
    What does camp uniform consist of? Just interested as we wear old clothes in camp as they end up filthy and keep Uniform for trips out of camp.
    We wear uniform to and from camp, and maybe if we go off camp, but thats about it. You take clothes you never want to see again on camp, and if it really gets badly damaged, as it does on a scout camp for a week, they end up on the fire.

  15. #45
    Senior Member big chris's Avatar
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    tdjno

    BP designed a practical uniform, you say? perhaps if he had had access to lightweight technical outdoor materials as we do now, he would have designed a different uniform? kids grow out of the current trousers before they wear out... they have lots of pockets, (if need be) they can be worn straight out of the washing machine, they are so quick drying and i am sure that BP would have loved fleeces...

    you say that BP chose shorts and the only people wearing similar were soldiers in hot climates... what do our soldiers wear in hot climates today? guess what! lightweight combats! wow but we're traditional and practical... TSA is scouting... traditionally!

    i know that £25 is alot of money for a pair of trousers... but they get a shedload of use out of them and we buy them back/ swap them for another second hand pair and they just last and last... they also have a v suitable pair of trousers for hiking and other activities and they never used to...

    last week, we did a winter night hike, they all wore scout trousers... suitable for a torch, a chocolate bar, a wallet, a compass and all sorts of other treasures... what a wonderful thing they are...

    shirt? don't care about the pocket flap... it still has badges and it is hard wearing, easily washed and does its job... i also have a couple of v lightweight light brown rohan shirts but at about £50 each... not for everybody and i'm not putting badges on them!

    scarf... tick... (although didn't they uised to be square?... it really doesn't matter to me... )

    woggle... yup... we still have them... rubber bands, electric cable, posh leather, polished copper pipe, all sorts...

    shoes? black shoes for 11/11... otherwise... trainers all the way... for me too. v practical... not sure about 100 yrs ago, but 55 yrs ago at 11yrs old, all my father owned was school shoesand rugby boots, so i suspect that school shoes were a necessity, not much more... surely BP would have loved all his scouts to have a cheap pair of trainers for camp... and a cheap pair of decent walking boots... pop down decathlon and get both for under £40 total.

    I look at my scouts frm time to time and wonder if BP would recognise it as scouting... and i have no doubt that he would... i don't get your comment about a lack of tradition... it's similar to Julian's signature... as if we are doing some bastardised faux version of scouting and his is the real thing...

    we have a programme based around outdoor activities that promotes teamwork and friendship... we camp, we hike, we play silly games, we sing silly songs, we encourage older scouts to stay on and become leaders,

    harrumph...

    perhaps if i worried what the committee of council said, what colour my trousers were or whether POR says "should" and not "must" then i might start to look elsewhere... but i know that the scouting i run is the same as that run by my old SL, who started 40 yrs ago and i know that when chatting to his ptredecessor... we still do soooo many things that he used to do...

    so...

    yours in scouting... traditionally (but not looking backwards?... does that make more sense?)

    Chris

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